Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to Work in Progress, a podcast series where I pick the brain of thought leaders within the field of people and culture. My name is Pernille Brom and in these talks we explore the latest trends shaping the future of work and the evolving landscape of modern organizations. In this episode, I'm speaking with Erik Knopf, vp of Talent and Culture and Enabler of Engagement and Belonging. You are sitting where, eric.

Speaker 2: 0:34

I'm in Hudson, Ohio, outside of Cleveland.

Speaker 1: 0:37

All right, and you brought your coffee mug to get you started of the day. It's afternoon in Europe, where I'm sitting, and you're in the US with enabling connections with talking about what's going on in cooking when it comes to recruiting and attracting the right workforce. So that's why I wanted to engage with you in a conversation about the year that went by 2024, and the year we're looking into right now 2025. Perhaps you would like to add a little bit more about yourself before we start looking back and looking ahead. So, welcome Eric. Who are you?

Speaker 2: 1:31

Thank you for having me. So Eric Knopf, sitting on the other side of the planet from you, has, as you know, had a history of spending time in places with you, whether it be in the States or in the UK, or in Copenhagen.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Correct we did some work together, that's for sure.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Yeah, that's right and it's frankly. It's been some of my best experiences professionally. My career has been around all things people. I joined a consulting firm that wanted they were hiring a guinea pig for somebody to do research. Yes, and that was me, and it's the first time they did that and that role in essence was a sourcer back in the day and it was. It was with retained search firm as well as contingent, so I learned the business of retained search and recruiting at a very young age.

Speaker 1: 2:37

Yes.

Speaker 2: 2:37

Right out of college, which is much earlier than most.

Speaker 1: 2:41

And one year are we speaking about?

Speaker 2: 2:44

What's that? Oh, geez Shall, we so 1989 is when I began.

Speaker 2: 2:50

All right, yeah, so I've been at this for a year or two times, whatever, and then my career did evolve from that into leadership. I had my own firm for a while. Did a tour of duty through lean consulting what is the value of what it is that people do, and where does waste hinder value? So spend some time in that space. Did a tour of duty in the RPO world the early days of RPO at scale where actually I read An RPO just for those of us oh recruiting process, outsourcing.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Yes, correct.

Speaker 2: 3:31

And I was part of the at the time. It was the largest HRO human resources outsourcing deal in the world. And that was a year where I ran the P&L for recruiting. I had an opportunity to join Ariba.

Speaker 1: 3:46

Yes, and Ariba is all about invoicing and transactions.

Speaker 2: 3:51

So it truly is a marketplace and one of the biggest in the planet. So we were acquired by SAP in 2013 for $4.3 billion, 2013 and for 4.3 billion, and with that it sap truly was able to spread its wings in the p2p space of procure to pace space.

Speaker 2: 4:17

I I spent time, as you and I had the opportunity to work together at, at trade shift, another p22P organization with a heavy EMEA focus, doing some unique stuff around, particularly around tax, that nobody else to this day is, but I'll tell you it was probably, from a cultural perspective, one of the most unique and rewarding environments I ever worked in.

Speaker 1: 4:41

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:43

And so I have to say thank you to that, to you for that, in part because of the book the Trade Shift Way that you helped co-author.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Yes, correct, and the Trade Shift Way was all about onboarding of new employees, getting a fair understanding of what the business is all about and how we look at people and culture. So that's where you came into the picture as well, right, we look at people and culture, so that's why you came into the picture as well, right? So our collaboration started there looking into, you know, how can we create a workplace where people want to be, where they feel connected to one another, despite the fact that we had actually offices all over the world, right? So, eric, you stroke me back then, and still do to this day, as someone who cares about human beings.

Speaker 1: 5:30

So, the sourcing sphere, the talent acquisition, those names are actually to me a little bit maybe mechanical, but then, when they are connected to you, they become human, mechanical, but then, when they are connected to you, they become human, and that's why I wanted to engage with you on this particular day, almost the first day of the new year around you know what happened in 2024 and what's going to happen in 2025, because you have this eye for humanizing the workplace, right, and maybe we should just dig into it and start talking a little bit about what is it that you see and have seen in 2024? What's happening in this sphere of workplaces of today, seen through the lens of PNC, people and culture, and also HR.

Speaker 2: 6:26

So you asked the question what have I seen take place over the last year? Yes, I'm going to go back one more year. All right, 2013,. The world really got to know ChatGPT. For many individuals, it was a toy. For many individuals, it was this new gadget that you could play with. That was fascinating. But to what end? Fast forward to this past year, 2024, ai has come into its own. So this past year, 2024, ai has come into its own. So this past year, we've seen some really, really, really cool things happen around, but particularly belonging, engagement, agility, resilience and with technology. So, as it relates to belonging, yes, there's been a tectonic shift when it comes to DE&I, but we've also seen a doubling down on inclusion and the importance of inclusion.

Speaker 2: 7:39

So, de&i, where the I stands for, inclusion yes, let's go back to the notion of how Gen AI addresses this. Yes, gen AI provides some of that support that you need. Gen AI frees you up from doing other work so that you can focus on mission, on impact. Gen AI because you're now freed up to do other things, you can now foster connections in a different way with individuals. So, in fact, there's tooling out there that now has capabilities to help you foster those connections.

Speaker 2: 8:12

Inclusion is about creating a culture where everybody feels valued and empowered. They not only are at the dance, they are invited to dance, they are invited, they're actually invited to contribute, and so it goes beyond the representation. So the D and the E, that's about who's at the party. Right, it's kind of hard to actually have to invite people to the party if there's no intention of including them. So I do think in this next year, we're going to see a massive shift away from the D and away even maybe from the E. But, as I mentioned earlier, inclusion is where we're going to see the activity, and that actually can be really, really positive. And the reason I say that is let's start with creating an environment where people are included today, now, because it's going to be inauthentic to recruit diversity into an organization where they're never going to be included anyways.

Speaker 2: 9:25

The next one third on the list is support, and we talked about that meaning. Are there systems, are there processes? Are there resources to empower people to be the best that they possibly can be, and that? So, yes, that is tooling. Part of that is what we're talking about now with Gen AI. So the tools, but it's also systemic stuff like mentorships and guidance that is needed in order to support them. So these systems, these structures, are actually embedded for people to do what they do. So with this, then how do you see, how do you infer that you're seeing this? It's participation rates in mentorship programs, in development programs. Retention rates are also significantly higher as a result of that. The fourth being connection. We spend a little bit of time talking about community building relationships that actually matter, that transcend the workplace even.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And that's where people want to be and don't want to leave the companies right.

Speaker 2: 10:35

Right, right, and so it's that level of connection that fuels collaboration. When people feel like they are connected, they are more inclined to share, they're more inclined to share their ideas, and part of that goes back to psychological safety, right, but it fosters relationships not only within small teams, but then cross-functionally, cross-organizationally, cross-hierarchical stratification. It's when you see that that this is actually where wonderful collaboration and innovation really starts to pick up.

Speaker 1: 11:15

And what else did we see in 2022 and before that really influenced HR and the people and culture sphere?

Speaker 2: 11:26

influenced, uh, hr and the people and culture sphere. I'll tell you, I think a myth. A surprise for me was how hr tech, uh adoption, has been so widely disparate, um, and I'm talking about disparate in terms of locations, um, so while EMEA is starting to see more and more focus on sustainability and DE&I innovation, north America is seeing greater emphasis on AI and on automation. So there is a cultural divide there. There is a quasi-cultural divide, even within HR that we talked about. You see, ta sort of leading the way with it started off with bots and scraping tools and the like that sourcers use and that schedulers use, but now it's part of how we do what we do. But I'm intrigued by disparity in how organizations approach it. There's been a miss on belonging. As we talked about this earlier, as we talked about this earlier, organizations for so long have been so focused on D, on the D, e, and now starting to be I, which is good. But I think there's something more fundamental HR leaders that embrace data are twice as likely to advance in strategic roles as those that don't. So if, as an HR leader, I can see not only what is happening in my own functional area, but if I could connect dots between that, say, total rewards and the rest of the age, and talent management and talent acquisition, but, more importantly, corporate objectives. What are the OKRs of the organization and and how do you tie them together? Having a data literacy, it's going to be even more and more important, but I think so.

Speaker 2: 13:41

What I've seen over the past year is going from just a surge of point solutions to the larger tooling in the marketplace. Certainly, you know Workday being among the biggest behemoths out there. Rippling is really setting up Dayforce, and there are others behemoths out there. Rippling is really setting up Dayforce, and there are others they are now starting to get into. There's not only leveraging AI in ways that point solutions might not be able to fund, might not be able to get into. The challenge is how do so many point solutions weave their data, their stories together in a way to inform decision making for HR leaders, and so I think there's been to see how that shift has occurred has been pretty darn fascinating for me.

Speaker 1: 14:38

And so now, 2025 is almost upon us, or maybe upon us now, when this episode is actually released. What do you see in the crystal ball? What's going?

Speaker 2: 14:59

to happen for HR and people and culture in 2025? So I think there's the broad and then we could we could focus um specifically on, on HR, um, organizational agility. Okay, Agility, it starts with that. Um. Gartner stated that 62% of HR leaders identify workforce agility, so workforce-specific agility, as critical to achieving their goals. It just so happens that those organizations that are adopting AI are also those organizations that are adopting internal marketplaces for talent. All right, they're the ones who understand how to break down the job to skills.

Speaker 2: 15:48

And then how do you identify those individuals, whether it be for a permanent assignment or just simply for a project? So it's having that agility to draw from within without having to even go to the outside. Within, without having to even go to the outside, how do you what does beyond integral mobility? Well, beyond that, how do you, as an organization, identify the need, simply for a project, for something to get done? So, yeah, there are going to be disruptions in the marketplace. We know that, Whether it be geopolitical, whether it be technology, those organizations that really know how to drive agility through understanding how stuff gets done, that's going to be huge Um next is there is a clarion call from HR leaders and from founders, even to address belonging, and there is a direct line between that and corporate productivity. So, um you know, Deloitte found that 79% of organizations with strong belonging and programs around it see improved employee engagement. This is the time there are some. A president of the former president of SuccessFactors, Meg Baer, has stated this is the time.

Speaker 1: 17:28

And why do you think that is what's happening right now that makes people come out and say this is the time for belonging and inclusion at that deeper level now.

Speaker 2: 17:40

So if you take a look at history, fairly recent history, there was a true competition for talent, which included retention. Pre-pandemic Pandemic the pandemic upended everything. How we operate it, uh, people went remote, um, there's greater levels of disconnection than than we had, than we had ever seen. It, it, it, it's cuts across function. It cuts across geography. It cuts across seniority. It cuts across function. It cuts across geography. It cuts across seniority. Everybody felt it, in part because of technology, technological advances. Organizations adopted ways of interacting, but they didn't necessarily they were interested in driving engagement.

Speaker 2: 18:53

And how do we keep people engaged when we don't see them? Right With remote work. How do we get productivity if we can't see them? We found individuals working multiple jobs right Because nobody was seeing what they were doing. You have a generation Gen Z. There's a great article that came out maybe two months ago where it was referred to as the loneliest generation, and folks just don't feel connected. And so you have all of this pressure of loneliness. You have this pressure for corporate productivity, you have this pressure between return to office versus remote, you have all this pressure around competing for talent, retaining talent. So it's all of that coming together at the same time. Belonging addresses is a silver thread through all of it.

Speaker 1: 20:04

So that's a silver lining. And how do you then ensure belonging at the workplace, Even if people are not in the same office, if they do happen to work in a hybrid setting? Some may be in the office, some might not. You might be dispersed across locations and geography.

Speaker 2: 20:25

It warrants repeating again and again, and again. It's safety, psychological safety, it's inclusion, it's support, it's connection and it's purpose those five. Leadership, and particularly HR, plays a role in facilitating all of them. Again, as important as diversity is, you can't have diversity if you're not going to include them to begin with, right? So how do you establish a sense of belonging for people who are there before you begin any external recruiting initiatives? So there's a role that HR plays with that, before people even arrive.

Speaker 1: 21:10

Right, it's how do we introduce people during the interview process, yes, but also extend it to the first couple of months and really deliberately try to make sure that people belong. Exactly yes, and so 2025, would you say, is going to be the year of belonging. Do you have hopes for that? Is that what you see?

Speaker 2: 21:58

Oh, I have hopes already. I've actually been told that All right.

Speaker 1: 22:02

I've had CEOs say 2025 is the year of belonging and I think it's so interesting how our conversation started out spiraling around technology and how technology could foster also a sense of belonging. So maybe we should round off by looking into 2025 and see how can technology aid and foster and create a sense of belonging, if this is in fact going to be the year of belonging.

Speaker 2: 22:32

So, yeah, there are a couple of things that are worth pointing out. For 2025, 47% of HR leaders stated that they plan on adopting predictive, ai-driven predictive analytics right, so, again, it's happening. You could choose not to embrace it or not. I mean, it's going to happen, right. So we were talking about what HR can do, the skills and competencies that are going to matter most we talked about this earlier is change management. That matters.

Speaker 2: 23:14

Mckinsey found that organizations with strong change management capabilities are 4.5 times more likely to meet transformational goals. Change management, which then ties into agility, and how important that is. We talked about that earlier. Skills intelligence. So how do you understand? How do you assess, map and predict skill requirements? Yeah, we need to be involved with that. Collaboration is the other one. How do you break down silos and foster cross-functional activity?

Speaker 2: 23:52

Yes, there's a notion of super connectors, and are you leveraging them, these individuals that are sort of the glue that you might not necessarily be aware of? Do you even know who they are in your organization? Yeah, um, david green a. For those of you that don't know who david green is, hop on linkedin, follow him. He is. His work is abundant, um, but he calls out the power of super connectors as being helping facilitate change. I think that's. Those are the competencies, but I think, um, we're going to see this coming year. Um, jna is here, but it's going to get more predictive. You're going to see automation as a strategic enabler and again, we sort of talked about the mundane, the automated tasks, but it's going to one step further and actually recommend tailored opportunities, whether it be training or the like for employees, and that's going to be based on employee preferences, which, then, is going to drive greater employee experience.

Speaker 2: 25:02

We've talked about how leaders enable employees. Ai can certainly help doing that. And then, last but not least and we've talked about the role, that point solutions are going to be challenged with moving forward in the HR tech landscape. 70% of the buyers and so this is the HR leaders who go to the HR tech, to that conference and the like but they want solutions, they prefer solutions that actually integrate into their existing tech ecosystems. So, moving forward this coming year, what is it that we can do as HR leaders? Embrace agility, it's here, embrace it. And that, whether it be workforce how we do workforce planning, how we align skills, how we align reward systems we need to refocus on ROI. What is it ROI? How can HR leaders, through storytelling, showcase our impact on retention, on engagement, on productivity, but tie it back to ROI?

Speaker 2: 26:14

You know what are the financial benefits associated with reducing attrition? Can we actually have that conversation? Do we know how to An investment in people and technology? Hr should not necessarily be relying on what IT recommends that we should be doing with our tooling. And then, last but not least, is priorities prioritizing thought leadership. That relates to AI. That relates to skills. That relates to the nature of work and how it gets done.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Yeah, so so there's a lot in store for HR and people in culture in 2025 and still a lot to do, and some of it links to using AI, especially within the predictive part of the analytics, but also creating a sense of belonging. I think this is a really, really nice way of ending this episode with just emphasizing how important it is that we stay human and that we stay connected to one another, because this is where the meaning of life unfolds, also in organizations. So I want to extend a big thank you to you, eric, for showing up today. It has been a true pleasure.

Speaker 2: 27:44

Thank you so much, Pradeep. Happy new year to you. What an amazing way to wrap up 2024.

Speaker 1: 27:50

And I'm clinking the glasses for a new year.

Speaker 2: 28:00

This is fantastic. I'm grateful for you and the work that you've done. This is again a tremendous way to wrap up the year and I look forward to working with you in 2025.

Speaker 1: 28:16

And I look forward to seeing the realization that 2025 year is the year Exactly. Cheers to that Cheers, exactly cheers to that cheers you've been listening to the work in progress podcast on people and culture. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share on social media. For more resources on people, culture and working in a modern world, please visit getsessioncom and check out our articles, guides, webinars and more. Thanks for listening.