Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to Work in Progress, a podcast series where I pick the brain of thought leaders within the field of people and culture. My name is Pernille Brun and in these talks we explore the latest trends shaping the future of work and the evolving landscape of modern organizations. In today's episode, I'm speaking with Jesper Diet, who is Group Chief People Officer, or CHRO, at Imagine.

Speaker 2: 0:30

So yeah, my name is Jesper Diet, I'm 45. I've been in HR for 20 years or something like that, but my journey actually started in business school in Aarhus where I studied at ASB, the equivalent to CBS, where I took a degree there in finance, and then I actually ended up in HR a little bit by chance.

Speaker 1: 0:54

All right, so your background is within finance, actually.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Yeah, I'm educated in finance. Yes, but I didn't actually really know what I wanted to do. I just knew that I wanted to be part of business life, being engaged, having some kind of influence of what is going on. And then I had some friends working at Vestas Wind Systems, the largest renewable company in the world, and through a network they got me in there in HR doing compensation and benefits. So that's actually where the HR journey started, in a more financial aspect of HR. Yes, exactly so I don't think many HR professionals have that background, but for me it was huge benefits because companies numbers is a big thing, so the more you can actually understand and talk with finance and other stakeholders about the numbers, what is a P&L, all these kind of things.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Yes, what is a P&L?

Speaker 2: 1:50

It's actually a profit and loss. It's a ledger, right. How is the company doing so? What is your revenue, what's your turnover? How much money do you make? What's your margin? All these kinds of financial aspects that I think is some kind of is often not spent enough time on from an HR side. I think you need to understand the business.

Speaker 1: 2:11

But we can get back to that a little bit, but that's very interesting because I met a few people who came from law. A ton of people came from law when you look at the HR departments. Not so many came from finance and stayed with HR, but it sounds like it's actually a really really good background to have to understand the business better, right.

Speaker 2: 2:33

At least I think so. So I still love Excel and these kind of things, which make me a little bit of a geek once in a while. But I like the numbers and I think if you don't measure it it doesn't really happen, right? So that is deeply rooted within me.

Speaker 1: 2:47

Yeah, and then knowing what to measure and how to measure it right.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Yeah, at least have an idea. And then, for me, you need to try things out. Read some books, try and see if there's some theory, or get inspired by others you or my colleagues or others that have good ideas, and then you try it out. It's better to try than just wait. So that, I think, is me. Then I spent 15 years as an investor in various roles, went from the more analytical compensation part of HR into more of the business partnering Dave Ulrich kind of a thing, then into heading a region, then into heading a segment, then into running our executive business partnering for our executive management, and then into a bigger role where I had basically executive business partnering all HR operations meaning service desk, data analytics, payroll comp and bent back to square one again Before I was lucky enough that Imagine contacted me and I started here two years ago.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Wanted to join, yes, but it's very interesting, so you actually wanted to stay with HR. It sounds like you developed yourself into, you know, trying out different things, growing your department, growing yourself in the role at Vestas at least. And now you're here, and this is where the title CHRO came into the picture, and can you just to the listeners who might not know exactly what that title is all about.

Speaker 2: 4:18

So for me, you're basically you're part of. What was important for me when I chose a new job was that I was part of the executive team, reporting directly to the CEO.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Why was that important for you?

Speaker 2: 4:29

For me, it's where you have the most influence, it's where you're heard, it's where you can actually position HR in a different way. It can also function reporting in different places, but I find it easier and more accessible if you sit directly with the CEO, and so for me that was a prerequisite for whatever job I took, that the reporting line was the right one for me.

Speaker 1: 4:54

And was it meant to be like this, or did you have to carve your way in to get that seat at the table?

Speaker 2: 5:01

No, here it was part of a given already Then one thing is to get the seat at the table, another thing is to stay there, because if you don't create value and you don't create value both for the business but also for your colleagues in running the other functions, there's no reason of being there. And I think that has always been my mantra right, that it doesn't matter what function you run or come from, you need to create value for the business. Yes, and that means also when you sit in a leadership team, that it doesn't have to be your exact function. That needs to whatever do the task or whatever. But if you're the best equipped to do it, you do it yeah, so.

Speaker 1: 5:41

So when you sit there, and and why? Why was that important for you in the first place? So you say it's important. I hear it and it was given here. It's not necessarily given everywhere. Why should people fight for it? Why does it matter?

Speaker 2: 5:54

I think, because the impact you would have on the organization and how you can actually influence culture, what kind of people you employ, what kind of development initiatives, how you basically run your business right, what kind of values do you want to have? How do you live your values? What kind of consequence is there if you don't live up to your values? These kind of things. And that needs to be rooted in the top, because if the top doesn't walk the talk, how can you ever expect the rest of the organization to follow? And leadership today is about creating followers. Right, people don't just want to be led, they want to get inspired, they want to get motivated, they want to be developed, they want to be seen and that's it.

Speaker 1: 6:33

That's a tough job yeah, so so when you sit there at that level, or do you then mostly tell an influence, or is it also a dialogue where you get some inputs and and ideas from from what the other sees? We people want?

Speaker 2: 6:50

and need for the business two things, I think. One of the biggest, I think, things you can do for yourself is to listen. So listen to understand, not to answer right. So I get most of my input from my colleagues, both in the exec team, but also the mds in the countries, from my teammates, from whoever in the organization. As long as you're willing to listen and you're curious, that's where you get all the meat right and you and you actually understand what is going on in the business. What kind of initiatives do we need to create? Do we have something we can build on or do we need to start from scratch? Or what do you do? Because I don't have all the ideas. I have some ideas, but I think the best outcome is when you team up, and that can be within the exec team, but it can also be across the organization. I find it actually most valuable when you create a team from the entire value chain, because you then get different perspectives and it's normally. You get a better solution. It's also easier to implement.

Speaker 1: 7:51

So, in terms of initiatives and things that you need implemented in the business, that you gather a team of stakeholders from different departments.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Usually, or we start in the HR environment. Based on input we receive, we come up with some kind of proposal and then I drag in stakeholders high and low to test it out. What do you think? Can we do this? How would that work for you? If we try it out here, maybe then test it in a country or in a function and then broaden it out to the entire business. If it works.

Speaker 1: 8:20

Interesting. So let me go back to the meetings you have at the C-suite level A little bit curious, because it's not that often we get to get a sneak peek into what's actually happening at those meetings. Can you honestly describe to us what's actually going on? How could a meeting unfold where you would say afterwards oh, we had, or I, I had impact.

Speaker 2: 8:43

We had impact as hr yeah, but I think that's where I might see things a little bit different, because I don't see myself as hr. I see myself as an equal business executive member as any one of the rest. So whatever topic we discuss, I have an opinion. I've studied the material beforehand, I made sure that I knew what I wanted to give of input or advice and then, of course, if it's an HR topic, I'm the one driving the initial dialogue or conversation or facilitating it. But it might as well be our CSO or CCO the commercial side of the business actually coming with.

Speaker 2: 9:24

How do we attack these kind of clients or whatever. And I really think that getting different perspectives and not being afraid of stepping into, I would say, the real business environment is the critical part to take here, or the critical path, because I think HR have a tendency of being supportive, meaning coming from below or coming from being asked. I think we need to stop that. I think we need to be much more brave, and that starts with us in the, in the top roles, actually paving the way and showing that we are just as important as as anyone else.

Speaker 1: 9:58

We we are the business and it's very interesting you say that, because the way you show you're important is actually to take out the convincing part or trying to prove part and be more. It sounds like collaborative and then really adding value by also adding your opinions to the other executives' matters, whatever is on the table. So it's more a dialogue, actually an equal dialogue. It sounds like.

Speaker 2: 10:21

At least that's what I'm trying to do. Of course, there are topics where they are much more experts than I am, but again and they I'm also more of an expert in some topics that that I present but still, if there is always good views and you can just tweak something a little bit and then you get a better buy-in from the entire organization. And also, don't be afraid to team up with your exec partner, go together with the CFO to implement something or whoever it might be right the CEO, don't be afraid of doing that. The stronger you stand together as an exec team, the better For the whole business. Exactly, and that's why we're here, right, that's for the sake of the whole business, not just for HR.

Speaker 1: 10:59

Very interesting. Thank you. It's good to get it carved out loud like that, because very often I I sense that we have a tendency as a profession or as a field, to you know, we use word as we need to own the seat at the table and we need to really prove ourselves and and this way of putting it it's much more equal and also like well deserved. So do you have any good advice for people where they might not be invited in or felt like they really are taken seriously or listened to to the extent they would like to? What's your good advice if that happens?

Speaker 2: 11:41

First of all, be curious about the business, not from an HR perspective, but from a business perspective. Try to understand. Ask all the silly questions you might have. Go around in the organization and just ask who is your clients? What is this about? Why are you doing this?

Speaker 2: 11:59

Try to really understand what is going on and what drives the business agenda. Because if you understand what drives the business agenda and the clients, it's much easier to to actually participate in those dialogue at the top level or at whatever level you sit at, because it doesn't matter if it's at the top or at a you can say a middle layer or whatever. Some of the discussions are the same and if you, if you're not, if you don't dare to step into those more, I would say from an HR perspective, probably dangerous discussions where you don't really feel comfortable, you don't really develop and you don't actually create the influence that you potentially have because you sit there, or why would you invite someone who doesn't say anything? So you also need to prove that you need to be there, or else I wouldn't invite myself.

Speaker 1: 12:50

No, so it's also about being a little bit courageous, and what could some of those areas be that you talk about?

Speaker 2: 12:56

that's a little bit more difficult, but I think, for instance, if people start talking about quarterly results or if they talk about this is the new sales strategy or whatever it might be, that is a little bit outside of your normal domain. Be curious, ask before you go into the meeting so why did you choose this or this and why not that? Or what's the reasoning behind it? And just be curious and wanting to learn, because then you have a much more. You have a much better opportunity to talk eye to eye and have something valuable to say, or a very good question so why didn't you consider these type of clients? Why only these, or why only these countries and these type of clients? Why only these or why only these countries and not that country? What's behind it?

Speaker 2: 13:37

And when you're part of a leadership team, no matter what level you're at, you both have your own team, but you're also part of the broader leadership team, and that means you have to act like that as well, and that's basically taking responsibility for the whole and not just for your part, and I think that's a big change for HR, where you really need to step out of the comfort zone and don't be so scared. People like to talk about what they're doing, so just ask the questions. That's what we're really good at normally in HR right Asking good questions. So you can use that strength actually to also get some more knowledge yourself and thereby increase your impact and influence in the entire organization.

Speaker 1: 14:16

Yeah, interesting. And then back to maybe the topics that might be more. You driving the agenda, you trying to carve the way for certain things to happen, the way for certain things to happen. What is it that you see is needed of the workforce of tomorrow? And, in this context, imagine what is it that HR needs to drive to make happen and make sure that the business is here for the long run.

Speaker 2: 14:44

I think we'll see people changing jobs much more often. I think we'll see much more value driven employees in the future. So it's important what they do and for whom they do it. I also see that a lot of the applicants and employees we have are much more concerned about the environment, the impact on our planet, the impact on other people, also the impact on themselves.

Speaker 2: 15:12

A lot of people don't want this linear leadership track kind of a career progression where you go this and this and this. They want to jump much more from task from project to project, and not everyone wants to be leaders and I actually think that's a very big strength that they are much more knowledgeable about themselves than than I was at my younger age. That they don't know this is not for me. I'm not ready to take that kind of responsibility or whatever it might be, and some, of course, want to, which is great, and so I think also both development initiatives needs to be much more agile and focused on the individual. It'll be harder to tailor for everyone. Of course, there's some things you can do sales training, leadership training, these kind of things where you create a common language and a common way of doing things but I think much more needs to be micro learnings, where people put together small learning sessions for themselves. So, with the help of us, much more online, much more on the fly than regular classroom training. I think that that's a big change.

Speaker 1: 16:18

And so what does this mean for the overall initiatives and for anything you try to carve the way with HR?

Speaker 2: 16:33

Actually, I think it's harder because you need to tailor it much more from the individual side and then you go from there to there. It's much easier in a context to develop programs or learning initiatives or whatever, when you know where it needs to end. I think it's much harder for us, which is why you need to always be on the lookout. What is going on outside? How do you get outside inspiration and just be aware that you don't know anything or everything? You know your own context, but how? There's a lot of new coaching initiatives, there's new learning initiatives that you can use from the outside. You just need to put it into in our case, an imagined context, so it fits with our culture and our way of doing things. But you don't have to invent the wheel yourself. There's plenty of gifted people out there you can spar with, and I think that's the critical part.

Speaker 1: 17:19

And how long have you been with Imagine at this moment Almost two years. Two years, and so what were some of the first things you had to do in your new position here?

Speaker 2: 17:29

First of all, I needed to understand what is Imagine. I didn't have a clue. So I traveled around to all the countries. I met the country managers. I met all the people. I gathered input, information, asked them about what's life in their world and tried to gather info. I met, of course, with my own team. What was important to them? What did they see?

Speaker 1: 17:53

How long time would you say people have before people start getting impatient? Okay, so now, jesper, you asked around, you visited all the offices and before they would start, maybe not only in this setting, but in businesses in general how long time do you have before you have to prove yourself? Shorter time than you think.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I think you need to find some quick wins fairly fast. Go in and assess the situation based on whatever introduction you have had to the company. Where are maybe the top three pitfalls or problems or initiatives that you should probably look at and then see if you can make some kind of quick win so you start getting going and you create some kind of positive momentum in the organization. And for me, for instance, one of the things that was quite obvious is that there was no engagement survey. Every country have tried a little bit. People didn't trust the data. It was a mess. Trust the data, it was a mess. So trying to do something easy, light, just to get some data in to see what we needed to work with, getting some feedback in. So for me, that was one of the first things I started to do.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Was that easy.

Speaker 2: 19:05

No, it wasn't, but it was hard work. Got the whole team involved, got all the executive team involved, so I got the backup to do it right and then keep going, keep going, keep going, keep. Also, when you get the feedback, show that we started this initiative based on your feedback. Thank you for that. And we keep doing that all the time, also today. So now we have quarterly pulse surveys and the last one we just did had 89% of all employees responding.

Speaker 1: 19:35

Wow, what was it in the beginning?

Speaker 2: 19:38

We were lucky to get to 70, but that was with push and also only half the employee size.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Yes, so now you have 89. With how many people?

Speaker 2: 19:47

So we are around 650, but then we have a consultant network that we ask different types of questions outside. But we are a fast growing company, right? We both grow organically and through mergers and acquisitions.

Speaker 1: 20:00

And it's no longer pull or push or trying to convince people. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 20:04

And it's also finding the balance on how much data do you actually need and how much so finding the balance to make it user-friendly. So it only takes one and a half minute to answer and then there is feedback column where you can write whatever feedback. So we try to turn it around so it's easy for everyone and then they can immediately see the output. And also the initiatives that we do are based on the feedback we get all right.

Speaker 1: 20:30

so so you you felt that was a quick win because it's something that's not there, it's giving you direct feedback on initiatives and it gives me data.

Speaker 2: 20:41

Most, importantly, it gives me data points.

Speaker 1: 20:43

So now we're back to where we started?

Speaker 2: 20:44

Yeah, but most importantly, getting some kind of data so you can start tracking stuff. So if, for instance, if turnover starts increasing, is there something about the leadership? Do you see leadership, the leadership part, going up and down? How do you track these kind of things? So the more data you have, the easier I think it is to create whatever initiatives you want or try to do something about it To be responsive.

Speaker 1: 21:07

It sounds like Exactly. And what happens? If you then see there's something going on in this part of the organization, a declining number or a rising number how can you make sure you can react to it immediately? And aren't you, I mean, busy with other stuff then?

Speaker 2: 21:23

Yeah, but then I have a great team, so so then of course, whatever team member is responsible for that part of the organization, they reach out to the leader and have discussions about what are we doing here? What is going on? Is it just one person that is really unhappy and dragging all the results down, or is there something more systematic we need to look into and then we team up across who's the best to come up with ideas or initiatives or whatever we can do to support that leader. It might also be that someone shouldn't be a leader and or needed some leadership training because they never received that. So be curious about why this is, instead of just coming with solutions without really understanding what's going on Exactly?

Speaker 1: 22:11

Do you also investigate or look into the numbers when they are better than expected?

Speaker 2: 22:16

Yes, that's even more important.

Speaker 1: 22:18

Okay, why?

Speaker 2: 22:19

Because then you can actually also use role model behavior and praising the different leaders that have really done something, but also to understand why is it better? What are they doing? Is it something that you could potentially do other places? How can we replicate whatever they're doing and actually then make it an imagined thing or a country thing or a functional thing or whatever it might be? So we really try that a lot, also because we are not the biggest organization and we are kind of fast paced and growing a lot. So whatever we can learn from each other Great, and that also makes the team really proud.

Speaker 1: 22:56

Yeah, sounds like it. So the trends you talked about before, where you know people are changing jobs faster and they don't necessarily stay with you forever, and also the trend of the younger workforce wanting, you know, a climate friendly company to work for something, someone who at least considers my well-being and how I can grow and develop. So, with those trends in mind, what are you doing? What's your take on what HR can do to support and help imagine or attract the right workforce for tomorrow?

Speaker 2: 23:30

I actually think it's difficult, but a lot of things is about branding and positioning yourself as a company, so it's about getting those personal stories out. I'm also responsible for esg, for instance, so thank you for that question. So there is a lot of initiatives, both on the softer side of esg meaning awareness, understanding how do we work, what we do but there's also the more hard stuff, like recycling it equipment to show that we make a smaller CO2 footprint. It's about what offices you choose. It's about going for different types of certifications so you can also show the world that you mean business. So we try to both on the hard front that you are mean business.

Speaker 2: 24:12

No, no, that we mean it seriously. That we really want to take ESG as a serious matter. Right and go for these kind of certifications, Ecovaries, science-based target initiatives, all these kind of things. That also shows the outside that you want to do this and it's not just something you say. So for me that goes for my entire what I'm doing. You can't just say something without doing it. It's very important for me to be authentic to what you preach yourself.

Speaker 1: 24:42

So you start out, you think about the whole employee life cycle. It sounds like so right from the beginning. How do we attract people and brand ourselves and positions ourselves?

Speaker 2: 24:51

How do we do better onboarding? How do you do onboarding on the fly so it becomes easier? How we, for, for instance, have an app where you, before you start, you can already get a login so you can start seeing small videos about who we are. Our ceo, myself, cfo, others have created like small videos about who we are and what we're doing, just to get that kind of feel that we are something special. And then trying to follow that through with different learning pills, different time of learning, development initiatives along the way and, of course, making a proper onboarding when people then start the first day.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Yes, what does a proper onboarding look like?

Speaker 2: 25:29

It depends on the role, but we have. A big thing for me is actually to align that also more across. Of course there needs to be room for cultural differences, but there needs to be certain steps that people go through. So for me it's important that there is a body. It's important that someone sees the person, takes care of the person, the first day.

Speaker 2: 25:50

Not only the first day, but the first month, creating some kind of feedback look, how has it been, what can we do different, all these kind of things. And then we also initiated international onboarding session. So every month the CEO, myself and the chief commercial officer meet all new Imagineers for one and a half hour, going through who we are, who Imagineers, how we can support them, thanking them for joining Imagine, and that creates that kind of personal space where people then reach out to us also with big, small things, but we are available and that's a big part of our culture. We want to create that open, transparent, safe environment.

Speaker 1: 26:31

And that sounds easier said than done. Right, Is that really done with a meeting that's only one and a half hours long? Does people dare to reach out to you after that as a newcomer?

Speaker 2: 26:41

yes, because what they also see, that when we travel around or when we have other meetings, that it's just who we are. Yeah, and we're just persons like anyone else. We just have different roles. So it's like a watch, right, you just have different uh, dials or whatever it's called in a watch. You just need it to function properly, to get a match into work, and it's the same. It doesn't matter what role you have. We just have different titles, we just do different things, but we need everyone to succeed.

Speaker 1: 27:08

So it's basically about establishing this safety. Psychological safety is another word for it, but it could also be the trust that you know I'm safe here, I can reach out I'll. It's okay to ask questions.

Speaker 2: 27:21

it sounds like but also to show that we are just people like anyone else.

Speaker 2: 27:24

We don't use titles, we use first name but you're leaders, I know and that's why you need to do it over and over and over again, and you need to do it whenever you step out of your office, wherever you step out of a meeting. You cannot come out of a meeting looking frustrated, because then people think what's going on, so you need to think about how you appear for the rest of the organization. I think that's a big part of it so so they're.

Speaker 1: 27:48

They're not looking frustrated part. It sounds almost like inhuman, because of course you are frustrated every once in a while.

Speaker 2: 27:55

But then you need to find the space where you can do that, and it's probably not when you come out of an executive meeting and all the organization is looking what is going on here? Right, and why do they look so? Am I getting fired? What is going on? So come out smiling, talk to people and then you can have the frustration somewhere else. I think it's. It's just we need to remember that there are just more eyes on us and how we behave. Replicate down the organization.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Yeah, so it's taking responsibility for knowing that people look more towards leadership than to their colleagues, actually for signs of what's going on and things like that. So the trends that we talked about earlier in terms of workforce you are an international company and you have tons of M&As, mergers and acquisitions and therefore also tons of different cultures joining. So you have Poland, you have France, you have Germany, you have Ireland, denmark, norway and all these different cultures. What are the trends there? How do you mitigate whatever potential problems that might arise because people come from different backgrounds or have different understandings of how to run the business best?

Speaker 2: 29:09

Yeah. So what we try to do is focus on the commonalities and then create alignment where we can, meaning, what kind of leadership do we expect? What kind of language do we use? How do people live up to our values? All the things where we can find commonalities, because the more we have we have found those, the more there's also room for local differences, because of course you cannot. We run what we call a Nordic, scandinavian leadership style, where we are open, authentic, all these kind down-to-earth kind of things. But of course, being a nordic leader in france is different okay, in what way?

Speaker 1: 29:42

what do you say to france?

Speaker 2: 29:45

no, no, but for instance, the culture is just different. It's a little more hierarchical in france and in germany, for instance. So you can still do it, but you need to do it in your way. You need to translate that into a french culture or an indian culture or whatever. It needs to be authentic, so you need to make it your own. But the more commonalities we can have which is also why, for instance, our values, our leadership program and and other stuff is co-created with the entire leadership team so we came up with a frame and then we wanted them to come with their small tweaks, ideas, whatever, so it becomes the entire imaginst program, not my program or the ceo's program, but our program. And I think that's the critical part here. Focus on the commonalities, align, but that goes in general in all processes. Find the alignment, then there's much more room to be different, because if the majority is aligned, then where you need to be different, there's room for that as well.

Speaker 1: 30:47

And then that edginess, or that part where you can actually show your differences, can also maybe become something of value.

Speaker 2: 30:54

For instance, when I talk to some of our Polish colleagues, they think this Scandinavian leadership style with being allowed to speak up, come with ideas, being listened to is a competitive strength for us. So when we attract employees, this is something we use and we see that in some other countries as well that it's actually an advantage. All right, but you also need to live up to it then, because then it's a leader exactly.

Speaker 1: 31:21

If you don't, then it's just nice words in a ad or something and and what do you do to support the leaders to actually be able to live that or so.

Speaker 2: 31:29

So, actually based on the feedback from the first pulse survey we had, and also for my initial traveling around, there had never been real leadership training at imagine. So that's where we created a leadership at imagine academy, where the this is the focus creating a common language. What does it mean being a leader, giving people the tools? We actually also offered people a business coach, an individual business coach, and many of them didn't know what it was. How do you use such a thing? Do I lie on a couch? How do you use this? So there was also some kind of this is for you. This is for you to develop your leadership skills. This is your space. I don't know what's going on in that space. I just need them to focus on their development in that professional setting, and that has really proven to be a great investment. We could see the leadership scores in the Pulse Survey rising every single quarter based on this.

Speaker 1: 32:25

Interesting.

Speaker 2: 32:26

Why do you think?

Speaker 1: 32:27

that is.

Speaker 2: 32:29

First of all, I think it's about focus, because creating a program like that, suddenly people start thinking leadership. They see it on the internet, they see it on quarterly, quarterly announcements, they see it in our team meetings. So suddenly it has some kind of a language for it and also people can see there's something being invested in it and and I would say the collaboration, then the, you can say the second benefit of of having a program like this, because we did it across the group, so we mixed the different countries and they never many of them never met. So creating that collaboration, that kind of wow, you're doing the same as me just in a different country, kind of a thing. So the, the organization, the stickiness in the organization and the collaboration has also just improved tremendously so, and then you linked it also to the business coaching part, which is is what?

Speaker 1: 33:18

why do you think that matters?

Speaker 2: 33:20

Because I don't think any kind of training can stand alone. I think all of us has tried in our career going to some kind of fancy training somewhere and we had Energized, and then we come back and then the entire team just go, okay, nice, you had nice four days, what are you doing different? And then daily life just hits again and you want to do it, but you didn't really block your calendar or book the meetings or do the preparation that you promised yourself on this leadership training. So I think we need help and in HR can in some cases do this. But I truly believe that having that external partner that is only invested in you and your development and doesn't have any kind of skin in the game in the company as such, I think that is a space that is really really valuable for for all of us. I also took my part, so we started with the exec team and the country and these. We took the medicine ourselves. So we started there and it was just great so so it sounds like you.

Speaker 1: 34:18

it's very interesting. We are heading towards the end of this program, but you started out your career and I didn't know that you had your education within finance. But it makes total sense because you've always had this focus on the business and that's also what you talked about when you talked about how important it is for the HR profession to understand and see themselves as part of a business, not as me versus them, or them and us, but us I think that's the biggest game changer is actually stepping into the business.

Speaker 2: 34:52

We are the business, being part of the business. We just have a different role. But that also means that you need to understand what the business is. So I could ask my hr colleagues how many reach the annual report from start to end? It's important. There's a lot of good information out there, so that's where we start. Ask the questions, be closer to sales, ask if you could follow a salesperson to a sales meeting. You need some kind of role so maybe you can take notes that day or whatever, but just to understand what is going on. I think that's the biggest learning. Of course, we need to keep educating ourselves within the field of HR as well, but this is the add-on where you really create value for the business, at least in my point of view.

Speaker 1: 35:35

Awesome, Jesper, and then I think you almost rounded it up right, Because it sounds like all the initiatives that you have started here at Imagine, but also in general, what you would do in any business where you were a newcomer, like you were two years ago ask curious questions, get to know the business, figure out some low-hanging fruits, quick wins you called it, and for you it was having data to actually build the initiatives from, so that you can speak with some numbers also, and then really gathering this collaboration team around the initiatives you start. I think you gave us a lot of important tips and info, and also thank you for allowing us into the C-suite room Always, when we got a little bit of insight into how is that actually going on there and what talks are you having, which was all about the business it sounded like. So that's interesting.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Exactly, and that's also something we need to learn. When we come in as HR professionals presenting an idea or whatever, an investment you want to do, or whatever, put it into a business context. If we do this, we will gain this, we will create value here or there, or whatever it might be. Put it into a business context. There is nothing worse than HR for HR.

Speaker 1: 36:53

Thank you, Jesper let's end it here. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. You've been listening to the Work in Progress podcast on people and culture. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share on social media. For more resources on people, culture and working in a modern world, please visit getsessioncom and check out our articles, guides, webinars and more. Thanks for listening.