Pernille Brun: 0:02

Welcome to Work in Progress, a podcast series where I pick the brain of thought leaders within the field of People and Culture. My name is Pernille Brun and in these talks we explore the latest trends shaping the future of work and the evolving landscape of modern organizations. In today's episode, I'm visiting Stine Pi Halmind, who is People Engagement Manager at Nordic Solar. Nordic Solar is a Danish solar energy company headquartered in Copenhagen, Denmark. You are the people engagement person here at Nordic Solar and that's a title I hadn't heard about before. Could you explain to us? Why do you have that title?

Stine Pi Halmind: 0:42

Yes, absolutely so. The essence of my role is to ensure that there is engagement across the organization so that employees are committed, that they are able to do their best, that they like being here, that they really thrive and are able to contribute their best. So engagement is the overall purpose and under that then comes some strategic areas such as learning and development and diversity and inclusion. Also the employee value proposition, engagement surveys. So those are the big chunks of what I do, but it kind of it frames the overall purpose of the role. Though it is a rare title, I would say yeah.

Pernille Brun: 1:22

And so when you entered into this position and those different areas were carved out for you, did you get a say to how to prioritize within these different areas, or how does that play out for you?

Stine Pi Halmind: 1:37

They are more or less equal. But it was kind of a question of when was what was due, so to speak, right? So so we started with diversity and inclusion because there was a policy that was up for review. So that was kind of the the initial prompt to say, ok, let's do that first. So it came out of a compliance initiative, so to speak, but it gave us the opportunity to really revise our whole approach to diversity and inclusion, or DEI as we call it, and it gave us an opportunity to lift the policy to not just being a compliance document but really saying something about what do we prioritize? Do we focus on manager development? Do we focus on onboarding?

Stine Pi Halmind: 2:20

Where do we see that diversity and inclusion is prioritized and considered as part of our people process and where do you see it? So it is for us very much a question of educating the managers. We have a session coming up later this year and what's been important for me is to really integrate it as part of the thinking and the processes around the people area. So when we have this session for the managers, for instance, it's about teaching them basic management, but with an inclusion flavor or an inclusion purpose. So we'll focus very much on meeting culture, on how to drive meetings, how to make decisions in an inclusive manner. So that's very much the perspective on it for me, and that also means that when we onboard people, we really have to tell them this is a priority for us, this is how we think about it. We expect you to be respectful and accepting of other cultures. We are half of the company that are not Danish, so it is quite diverse team in total.

Pernille Brun: 3:28

Okay, so diversity, it sounds like, is a huge priority for you to really focus on in your role and as a company overall. It sounds like how come?

Stine Pi Halmind: 3:39

We really do believe that it's a strategic advantage that we do have diversity. I've been in a lot of startups within tech and finance where the starting point was we're too many men. There is a majority of men in these businesses, so how do we make it more diverse from a gender perspective? That has kind of been the basic starting point, which is, of course, very basic, but I mean, you have to start somewhere. But the difference now when I'm in Nordic Solar, is that we actually have quite a diverse workforce. They have very different backgrounds, very different cultures, very different experiences and educations. So the starting point of diversity is there, but how do we make the most of it? You would say that with a 50% foreign workforce you would naturally speak English, but we do have teams that are mainly Danish. So how do you install that kind of cultural awareness and speaking English and that kind of cultural change is quite important. So as we grow from a relatively small company to a fast-growing bigger company, it becomes more important that it's a natural part of how we navigate.

Pernille Brun: 4:49

Yeah, and what about those people who would then prefer to speak in their native language with their college on a day-to-day business?

Stine Pi Halmind: 4:57

I think it's a balance. I think we're in an era where it's a lot about paying attention to other people's preferences, to other people's needs. We do need to accommodate a lot of different needs and perspectives. So I think it's up to the individual to consider that as well and to make sure that, hey, if I sit down next to someone who doesn't speak Danish, then I'll switch to English, danish, then I'll switch to English. But, of course, if you're in your daily life and that goes for the Danes, but it also goes for the Italians or the Polish, or they can all speak in their native language, as long as they pay attention to the setting, when they're not alone in their isolated field.

Pernille Brun: 5:35

So it sounds a lot like it's the attentiveness and also the pure awareness that this is what's going on around me. And then you linked it to engagement, and that's interesting, because how does those two items or things fit together in your opinion?

Stine Pi Halmind: 5:55

One important part of it is that if you feel like you're sitting at lunch and people speak a language you don't understand, or everyone dresses differently than you, or everyone has a different background, different education, then it's harder for you to feel like that you belong in that place, that it's okay for you to be there. It's a natural human instinct that, okay, I look different, I feel different, maybe I'm not supposed to be here. So if we can tweak those little things and help people get that feeling of yes, I have a right to be here, I'm a contribution, I'm valued for what I am and for what I can contribute with in the company, then of course I can unfold more, I get to speak up, I get to perform more, I lean more into my job when I feel like it's safe for me to be there and that I won't be judged negatively. So I think it's a very, very important foundational part of creating belonging. And then engagement comes of that, because people dare to unfold and really give their best.

Pernille Brun: 6:59

And how about you mentioned you trained the managers, so that's a focus of yours. Why did you choose the managers and not the teams?

Stine Pi Halmind: 7:10

Two things. For one, I really see the manager as an enabler. The manager is. Everything they do is contagious. The way they communicate. People look at their managers and they copy what they do.

Stine Pi Halmind: 7:23

Almost you see that from C-team, from the executives the way they behave, the way they speak, the way they interact with employees really sets the tone of how the rest of the organization works and interacts, and I believe that's true in all manager levels. So, starting with the managers, you have a small group with big impact. So that's one reason. The other is, as I said, educating people in diversity and inclusion has to be integrated in the natural processes, and we already do have manager training. Four times a year we have a workshop where they get some sort of introduction to a leadership tool or perspective, and when we then step into that forum that they already know they're used to, showing up for these trainings, then we already have a little bit of a safe space where we can then introduce a topic that's a little bit different than what they're used to.

Stine Pi Halmind: 8:19

That's, of course, the big challenge how do we transfer it from the learning space to a daily leadership? And for me I think it goes back to what it is that we teach them. We've chosen not to do a complete session on unconscious bias, for instance, because they are going to learn about it, because that's why we that is, what can stand in the way of us doing something differently is that we just do what we would like ourselves, or we do what we're used to, or we do what we think others want. All of these assumptions we do need to clean them up. So it is important to talk about unconscious bias, but the headline is inclusive leadership, which is about running meetings and having one-on-ones and making decisions, which I know they'll do so, hopefully, by attaching it to something that is natural for them and that they will have to do next week or even the day after they step out of the training session. Then, hopefully, that's a way to kind of implement it and make it natural. And do you then follow?

Pernille Brun: 9:18

It sounds also like you very consciously work on creating a continuous learning culture here.

Stine Pi Halmind: 9:23

Well, exactly on the learning and development is one of the areas that we're developing right now. It is a company where a lot of things has been delegated to the departments, so whenever they see a need for project management training or something else, they will then arrange it and send their employees on courses. What we're looking at now is to have a bit more of a strategic approach where we from centrally from people and culture have a perspective on what's going on. What kind of learning activities are we actually offering across the organization? How can we track the learning that is going on and see how it is happening? Because maybe we can make use of it internally and we can streamline what we offer people. Going on, and specifically for the managers, I'm developing right now a new course for our new managers. So we'll do probably four or five workshops over the course of a year, so more or less what they're used to, but then we'll add some workshop elements where I really discuss with them what they've learned. They'll have some self-study in between and we'll do very practical exercises that they can then go and practice in the month or two until we meet again. So hopefully that'll create more coherence and more accountability, because they know we'll meet again soon and we will follow up on this. Some of them have expressed a need to interact even more with a small group of manager colleagues, so some of them will probably have some sort of sparring circle or a little peer group that they'll meet with over lunch and will very much support that and see can they then exchange experiences on what they've learned. So that's kind of the basic foundation of it.

Pernille Brun: 11:05

And how do you track it?

Stine Pi Halmind: 11:07

It's a good question. I think what we need to do first is to understand the need in the organization. What is it actually that we would need to teach or train or learn? And then we find the best methodology for that. Obviously, we are looking into online training because it is an efficient way and it's flexible in the sense that people can do it when they feel like it, when it suits their workday. But it's also known that it's one of the difficult means of learning to actually transfer it into daily life. So we'll find the methodology and say how do we find the right mix between physical and online training? And then, of course, you can track how much training do people actually do? That's part of EU compliance these days that you actually report on the number of hours, but it's much more about what did you get out of it.

Stine Pi Halmind: 11:56

So having evaluation of courses, following up in it, could be in one-on-ones, it could also be. We have leadership days, a few days a year, where a specific manager group on a specific level or a group we created, they meet up for a whole day or sometimes two days, with overnight in between, where they get a chance to work on their own cases and talk about the dilemmas that they're facing right now. And of course, they have external facilitators that kind of help the conversation and guide them. And I think those touch points really matter in anchoring the learning, because they will get to talk to each other about what did that mean for you? How does that play out? Or someone comes up with a dilemma and someone else said, oh, wasn't that the training we actually had? Because someone in the group will remember, even if you don't in the moment. So I think that internal accountability rather than just a tick box, measuring or evaluation, I think that's where the real impact is.

Pernille Brun: 12:53

So in your position. How do you prioritize what initiatives you need to focus on next?

Stine Pi Halmind: 13:07

For me it's a balance of looking into what's cooking in the organization. Where is there a need? I have the entire learning and development field as part of my work and of course we're going to look into learning and development for employees. But we did start with the managers and usually you say, well, let's start from the bottom, let's make sure that we get something broad. But in the management group there was already talk of how can we optimize? Are we getting the most out of the activities that we have?

Stine Pi Halmind: 13:31

There was an opportunity to actually go in and say, oh, you know what I'll support you on that there is some momentum, some energy there, and I think that guides me in a lot of priority decisions is being in touch with the organization, knowing what's on their mind, because that's where I can have the biggest impact. And then, of course, there's a strategic direction of is there any compliance coming up that we need to look at? Is there anything that's? You know, sometimes you have like a pretty good baseline and you want to lift that and optimize it and mature it. And sometimes you have a pretty good baseline and you want to lift that and optimize it and mature it, and sometimes you have something that's not up to par and we need to fix that. So I think that's part of the considerations.

Pernille Brun: 14:06

So how do you keep track of all those priorities??

Stine Pi Halmind: 14:12

Stine Pi Halmind

Stine Pi Halmind: 14:12

Well, currently we use Microsoft as our tool, so I actually use their planner tool our tool, so I actually use their planner tool. So, having the different streams and topics and then the tasks within that and the areas and reminders, so a basic task management system, I would say.

Pernille Brun: 14:28

So do you fill in the topics yourself, or are you also building on something that's already out there that you can maybe touch on?

Stine Pi Halmind: 14:36

In my position. I build it myself, course. We have a chief people officer that I spar with a lot and she has regular weekly, maybe biweekly meetings with the rest of the executive team. So of course we adjust depending on the priorities. Is this still urgent, or should we push that to after summer? So we'll adjust. But it is very much an independent role, so it's up to me Nice.

Pernille Brun: 15:01

So on a daily basis, when you engage with the managers and the employees, of course, how do you build up that trust and confidence so that they will actually use you as a sparing partner? So in some organizations we know that the HR people are maybe seen as more someone who comes in control and makes sure we live up to compliance and stuff like that. But it sounds like you are in a position where you want to be a sparing partner and someone, a trusted advisor almost. How do you make sure you land in that position, if that makes sense?

Stine Pi Halmind: 15:39

It does and it very much aligns with my personal mission of being in this role is being that trusted advisor. One of the things I do is, of course, to listen and be flexible. So for me personally, that's also the way that I'm geared, that you know. I prefer listening, I prefer understanding what's their point of view, and then I'll adapt around that. Sometimes I'll have an agenda and say I know that we need to reach this goal, but how we do it, that depends on where their preference is. Do we do A first or B first?

Stine Pi Halmind: 16:10

So what I do if I have conversations with them after we did our engagement survey, I would go out to all the managers and I will share the results from their survey and I would kind of teach them how can you then share with your teams. So that's one point of interaction I have with them. There could also be specific items where they invite me in to talk to the entire leadership group in that department or the entire team, and then we'll address a specific topic. And when I have these conversations or preparing with the manager, I'll listen for something that they say that's really good. So if they come up with a point, it's also the culture in our department, or maybe it's a question of who communicates, or I know that it matters what I say.

Stine Pi Halmind: 16:50

I think, yes, it's really good that you say that, because it does matter what you say. For instance, in my experience, this could help you and then I'll draw something in. So I'll wait for those little moments, which means that sometimes it takes a little bit longer, but when you get that opportunity to be that sparring partner, then they hear it and they see how it's valuable in their specific context. Rather than me coming up with, this is a new way of doing things, or I think you should think about this if it's not on their mind already of doing things, or I think you should think about this if it's not on their mind already. So I think that's a way to really anchor the things that I come with and make sure that they have a specific impact, and then, if A or B comes first, we'll figure that out.

Pernille Brun: 17:31

It's about their everyday life, right, but it also sounds like you're almost in a coaching role, because it sounds like sometimes you give an advice when it's timely and due, but it's also about asking questions and prompting them to maybe find some answers and solutions themselves. Absolutely, what's the link to coaching here? Because it almost sounds like you are, you are entering into this role with a coaching mindset.

Stine Pi Halmind: 17:55

Yeah, well, the first concrete example that comes to mind is one of the things that you learn as a coach is sometimes to ask is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have? And I actually use that question quite a lot. So, also, if they say, well, let's have a meeting, we want to gather the leaders and we want to inform them about our approach to collaboration based on the recent engagement survey, then really asking an extra time. What do you want out of this meeting? What's the purpose? What would you like to see happen? What are you worried could happen? So really understanding their perspective on what are we going to face in this room, whether it's literally in a session with their employees or it's in their daily life. So getting that understanding of what it is for reality that they navigate and finding the positive energy that we can then build on. So really being that and then trying to come in when you have those openings and say, ok, well, here is a gap where I can fill something in right, or here's a doubt, or here's something positive that I can really help boost. Um, so I think that's uh, that's kind of the coaching aspect of it.

Stine Pi Halmind: 19:10

Yes, um, so all new managers they're offered coaching for four sessions a year. So not a lot, but sufficient to create some sort of constant in their daily life. And we give all managers and almost everyone that we recruit a personality assessment so they will have that as a starting point when they start their coaching. So, as it is now, the coaching is a safe space for the managers. They can talk about whatever is on their mind, whatever they prioritize. So we don't keep track, we don't ask for reports on what's going on in the coaching sessions. It's their space. So we don't know if they're very much linked to what's going on in their daily leadership or if it's on the personal side. We don't know. But it's a choice that we've made that they have that space.

Pernille Brun: 19:59

And how come? Why did you make that choice?

Stine Pi Halmind: 20:03

Well, the choice was made way before I joined. The benefit I can see is that when we offer something to employees here, it's very much based on trust. It's very much based on we give you this opportunity and however you use it is up to you. So, whether we're talking flexible work or specific benefits such as training or breakfast in the canteen or whatever it's, it's here and and you can use it in the way that you that you want to, we don't have to control how much you eat or how much you use this benefit or how many times you go to the massage, and I think it's the same with the coaching Say, well, we offer you this free space and it's a gift because we think it benefits you and it benefits us as a company, but we don't mandate how you use it. So it's very much part of that open culture that we have. I think the honesty and the genuine approach to people, I think, is what kind of informs that, and you could say that, okay, that's how it started. Again, back to this company having an incredible, naturally healthy culture. It's an approach that I've had for years. It's the way that I believe we should help organizations. It is that we offer something and we create guidance. And if someone feels like, or they're able to run on their own, if they don't need the guides that we make for them or they choose not to use our offers, that's fine. But I want to make sure that it's available for those that could actually use it, because it's sometimes harder for them to ask for it. And what we're seeing right now? We're seeing a big trend towards what they call tailored employee value propositions We've talked about, you know, after COVID, we've seen this hybrid work coming in, we've seen working from home. There's an increased trend of flexibility, or at least difference in how people work, and I think we see that now moving into other spaces of the organization. So, when we studied the research from McKinsey and other big consultancies, it's all about diversifying your offer for employees, because we do have a generation now that are more aware of what they want, they're more aware of what's possible. They've seen more different opportunities, more ways of working, because they're more connected across the globe, and that means that companies will have to accommodate to more diverse needs.

Stine Pi Halmind: 22:42

And then, of course, do we go all the way into differentiation where everyone can just pick and choose? No, it does require that we also take a stance on what we want as a company. What kind of company are we? What do we not want to offer? And then people might have to go somewhere else. And that ties into DEI, because the E in the DEI is equity At least it is for us.

Stine Pi Halmind: 23:02

We changed it in our policy from equality to equity, and equity is about offering different things to give people the same opportunities, and I think that's a very saying approach or terminology for how people in culture have to act. Right now. We really have to think about equity and inclusion and saying we can't just offer one thing and then you can use it or you don't. We actually do have to consider different needs, whether that's a gluten-free lunch or it's different times that you can go to massage, or it's the learning and development that you can do at your own pace. We really need to think about that differentiation and I think that's a tricky balance, because where does it end?

Pernille Brun: 23:48

We can't do individual accommodation all over, but it sounds like you're doing a great job, doing it as much as possible. You talked a lot about the managers. How about the employees, the offerings for the employees? So I guess the massage and things like that are also for them. But what about coaching? What about learning opportunities? What about those fora where they can maybe spar with their colleagues? Do you also have that in mind?

Stine Pi Halmind: 24:18

Absolutely. It's one of the things that have happened quite naturally in the company so far. So it's one of the things where we are looking into. Can we create more support, potentially some structure that makes it easier for people to see what are the different options that I can use Right now? It's very much based on the freedom so that people can go to their manager and say I would like this. Ok, well, some people get coaching, some people go on courses, some people there's a good culture of inviting each other for lunch, so doing knowledge sharing across over lunch with your colleagues from other companies. We're very good at approaching each other, going to the desk and asking questions. So I think a lot of these things happen naturally. But the more we grow, the more complexity there is and the more we're going to see that some people won't just naturally come and ask for things, or they won't necessarily know what they want or what would be best for them, so they ask for what they think is right. I need to go on this course, but maybe it would actually be better for them to have some training on the job. So what we're looking into now is creating that support structure to say, okay, these are the opportunities. Maybe there's a guiding budget, there is some fixed courses that we know that these work well. So we're going to try and start offering them more across the company rather than just to the department that used to do it. So I think it's very much about finding that balance without ending up in a rigid structure where this is the only thing you can do or people just take the opportunities you give them because they don't get anything else. So really trying to find that balance again is where we're at now, and it's not something that we're done with at all. It's very much at that stage where we lift it from a good baseline to something even better. All right.

Pernille Brun: 26:05

So what's the best part of your job?

Stine Pi Halmind: 26:09

The

Stine Pi Halmind: 26:09

best part for me is when I see the specific impact that I have on people's work and their interactions in daily work life. So I do a lot of strategic work where I'll do research on what's best practice within employee value propositions, what's best practice within DEI. I'll summarize that or present it. I'll design some sort of proposed solution, a framework process. But where it really matters is when a manager comes and say I've been thinking about this and I'm like like I'm happy you asked because I've actually thought about this, or I want to test this with you, or I have something I can provide for you.

Stine Pi Halmind: 26:46

And and those moments where you really see, oh, I helped this person who will now go and use that in their team, um, or it could be an employee that I'm having my employee development conversation coming up. What do I need to do? Do we need to follow the template? And I actually get to tell them. Well, it's not about the template, it's about you having a really good conversation. It's about you clarifying your options. No one expects you to have a five-year career plan. If you do, now is the time to lay it out. But really guiding them on how to navigate in between the processes and templates and offers that you see in the structure, that's where it really becomes magical.

Pernille Brun: 27:22

All right, so it also sounds like you found a really good balance between your strength profile, or who you are as a person, and combining that with your position, with your position. So what would be a good advice for any new people looking to enter into the PNC space or the HR space? What would your advice be in terms of being themselves and fulfilling the role in a personalized way for them?

Stine Pi Halmind: 27:53

I think the first step, if you're completely new to the area, is understanding the different areas within people and culture or within HR, for instance. With us we have. So I'm kind of on the strategic level where I spend a lot of time thinking about what's the direction, what's the frameworks, what's the trends, what's best practice. We have a business partner who sits in a specific department in our case, an engineering department two days a week and catch all the questions, all the doubts, participates in meetings, really have the close, close contact with the business and in our case she has a 40 people team. Other businesses you will have 50 or 150 that you're a business partner for. It's a completely different work because you're much more out there and you have the operations part where you're very much into the HR data, the processes, what are the rules and regulations? How do we onboard people, how do we make processes for this, how do we remind managers that they need to register illness or whatever it is? And they're very different personalities in each of these areas. So I think that would be the baseline figuring out where do you actually feel like you fit, what is it you want to do, and then being true to that and sometimes, yes, it's a lot easier to start in operations because they'll usually have more junior employees coming in and doing some of the base work and then you can work your way up. But really knowing what you want, and then I think, once you understand your strength, you can much easier.

Stine Pi Halmind: 29:16

You can better tell that when you apply for a position or when you join a company or a new team, and also continue to do that when you have the interactions with the organization, saying what is it that I offer?

Stine Pi Halmind: 29:29

So, for instance, well, for me it's about understanding what you as an employee or you as a manager want. And if I say that out loud, then they know my primary purpose is not to come in with my advice. I'm happy to share my experience, I'm happy to tell them about best practice, but I can't just refer to all the research or what I know that worked for someone else. I really have to listen to them. So speaking out loud about what it is that you can offer them really gives that opportunity for the optimal collaboration. So, the more clear you are and it does take some experience and some testing things out so if you really don't know, then go and try and copy someone else and say okay, I can see that some people work in this way. They're very advising, they're very direct, they're very direct, they're very structured. I'll try that approach and figure out if that works for me, and I'll try the other one where I shut up and I listen and I ask questions.

Stine Pi Halmind: 30:23

And then see how it plays out

Pernille Brun: 30:25

Exactly Awesome. Thank you so much, Stine. It's been a real pleasure picking your mind today and maybe we'll back later and and have another conversation on other topics within pnc and engagement. Uh, it was a pleasure, but let me ask you one last question. Is there anything I haven't asked you?

Stine Pi Halmind: 30:43

That's a really good question, um, I think the only thing is that, um, when you step into the people and culture or hr role, it's um, what you do and how you work is very much dependent on the structure of your organization and your relationship with a chief people officer or some sort of manager. In some cases, hr and people and culture refers to the CFO, so that will probably be a different relationship. And then, how much do you need to report to executive management? So, in our case, a lot of what we do, we put into slides and we present it in 10-minute presentations to the executives, to our C-team, so that it makes it easy for them to say yes or no to really back the initiatives that we have. So if I come up with a recommendation, they'll usually trust me and say yes, but they do want to understand the numbers behind the methodology, what has come before it, not necessarily in detail, but they really need to sense that the base work is in order. And then it's safe and easy for them to say yes. And I might meet with them two times a month or once a month with different initiatives, and now we're doing this, now we're doing that.

Stine Pi Halmind: 31:53

This was the result of this. This was the result of that. So really having a forum where I can present easily what it is I've done and what my recommendation is. That's the way we work here. In other organizations you'll be much more getsession. com, so you'll have to find other ways to understand. How do we create something that will find that backing and support in the organization? Is it about inviting employees or middle managers for a talk, really making sure that you get the internal stakeholders involved in what you do, so you don't go into the rabbit hole, come up four months later and then propose something that's not in line with what the organization needs. So I think that might be a final point.

Pernille Brun: 32:34

Okay, great Thank you so much, Stine. Thank you. You've been listening to the Work in Progress podcast on people and culture. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share on social media. For more resources on people, culture and working in a modern world, please visit getsession. com and check out our articles, guides, webinars and more. Thanks for listening.